For all Buster Posey‘s insistence that he will be the starting catcher on opening day, there is a strong undercurrent in the front office for moving him to first base — or maybe even third base, with Pablo Sandoval grabbing a first baseman’s mitt.
Buster Posey is a special player. You don’t need me to tell you that obviously — in his short career thus far, he’s played (for the most part), at an elite level. To date, he has 645 plate appearances in 160 games — roughly a full season of playing time, during which he’s hit .294/.353/.462 and amassed 5.1 wins above replacement. And he’s still only 24 years old, so he presumably has a ways to go before reaching his offensive peak.
The problem with moving Posey is that a major element of his value is positional: in other words, that he’s a catcher. And catchers that are above-average on both sides of the game, as Posey is, are very difficult to find/replace. It’s the basic concept of positional value, as explained here. A brief excerpt:
The concept is easy enough to understand. Different positions on the field require different skills to play, and some are inherently more difficult than others. Catcher is harder to play than left field, and shortstop is harder to play than first base. We can easily accept an argument for accepting less production out of certain positions as an acknowledgment that the pool of players who can adequately play said position is small.
Posey’s inherently more valuable as a catcher, merely because it’s a harder position to play. In fact, based on estimates by Tom Tango (chart), over the course of a full season (600 PAs), a catcher provides roughly 2.5 wins more in value than a first baseman (assuming all other factors — defensive, offensive, etc. equal). To put it simply, that’s the difference between Posey being an all-star caliber player, and Posey being a solid/average-ish player.
But it extends beyond that. Posey is a good defensive catcher. Small sample size — I know, but if you take his catcher defense rankings from 2010 and 2011 (which, again, is roughly a full season), he’s worth about +7.5 runs on defense (not accounting for game-calling/pitch-framing).
Perhaps most importantly though, Buster Posey wants to catch.
Look, I understand the rationale behind moving Posey from the catcher position. As a catcher, he’s a constant injury risk. But the fact of the matter is:
1) Posey’s collision was sort of a freak accident — in the sense that those injuries are relatively uncommon. (For the record, I believe MLB should address the issue of collisions).
2) The reason Posey’s special is that he’s a catcher, and he’s a good one. And by moving him from the catcher position, he’s stripped of a lot of that value.
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37 Responses to Thoughts on Buster Posey, Catcher
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I agree completely. Great post.
Well done…
D’accord! As long as Buster WANTS to catch,and is hacking it as well as he does, let him.
Agree. Posey is in the All-Star conversation every year as a catcher. As a 1B probably not.
Buster wants to catch and the front office should just back off and let him. Besides, there’s already a log jam at 1B….Belt, Pill and Huff(one more year).
Let Buster catch. I don’t understand Pablo going to 1st. Can you image the Panda doing some of the calisthenics those guys go through, including the splits, catching the ball on 1st? And why do they insist on putting Belt everywhere except 1st? His performance has been outstanding there. I cant’ wait to get past this season and see Buster’s shining face again. He played a huge role in the World Series, much more than people realize and that the staff had such confidence in his performance and decision-making abilities was evident throughout the entire season.
If the giants go after another catcher that can both hit and catch, Posey could go to another position. Great topic and very real!
If you put Buster or Panda at first, that cuts Pill out of the 2012 picture, no? It also means Belt is in the OF and I’m not sold on that yet.
On the whole, I am with you. However, I have two points to add.
One value of Posey that may transcend position is he’s a leader. What made his arrival last year so dramatic was that he immediately became the calming influence on the team. Thongs, beards, and personalities aside, when things go well, it doesn’t matter how loveably goofy everyone is. But when the wheels threaten to fall off, having a Posey around is invaluable. And he can exercise that power about as well at 3rd or 1st or in Left.
Posey’s not the only catcher on the roster or in the system. In fact, the Giants have one or two minor league catchers who are impressing scouts. When and if they mature/develop, it would be wise to have an option that allows Posey to move to a less strenuous position. (25 years ago, pitch count was an unknown stat. Perhaps 5 years from now games caught per year will be an important stat. Weirder things have happened.)
the stat shouldn’t be games caught, it should be pitches caught and the common name for it would be squats.
Excellent article, Julian. It is true that Buster’s value to the team is best used as a catcher. The pitchers like the way he calls a game. He brings the best out of them and that cannot be down played. If the pitchers are comfortable, they will generally pitch better and be more effective in the long run.
Some players have more of an innate knowledge of the game of baseball and Buster is one of those rare individuals that has baseball smarts beyond his years. It is important that he learn a few more techniques for blocking the plate and avoiding a collision like he did in the future. As a catcher on a championship little league team, I had the good fortune to be taught a few of those by one of our coaches that was a catcher at the professional level.
With the throw being a bit offline, it put Buster into a bad position insofar as the collision. Was the collision necessary? I don’t believe it was as there was room for a slide into the plate as Buster had to turn for the throw and there was enough open plate even if he would have caught the ball.
The collision discussion is similar to the discussion in the NFL concerning hits on a “defenseless” player that does not have the ball. Much of that came about after the hit by Tatum on Stingley. Possibly this could initiate a discussion in MLB about similar types of “defenseless” player collisions.
We can only hope.
Don’t forget, Posey also has played SS, another hole the Giant’s need to address. Not that they will put Posey there, but it’s worth the thought. Oh yeah, Reyes is not the answer for that spot on the Giants.
By moving Posey from behind the plate, is like changing the team chemistry; not something you want to do with a team that for the most part lacks leadership.
You are right on! Plus the fact that the pitchers are comfortable with Posey behind the plate. He is a smart and patient catcher. I wish the best for Buster and that he recovers fully.
Well written article, and I agree 110% Buster’s value as catcher is much higher than at any other position on the field.
One of the most amazing things about Buster is that he worked so well with an excellent pitching staff. I realize Bochey wants to protect him, but if he’s not using Posey to the best of his ability, that’s a waste! Not to mention the fact that Sandoval is an excellent 3rd baseman, intuitive and making very few mistakes when throwing to 1st base.
One of the most amazing things about Buster is that he worked so well with an excellent pitching staff. I realize Bochy wants to protect him, but if he’s not using Posey to the best of his ability, that’s a waste! Not to mention the fact that Sandoval is an excellent 3rd baseman, intuitive and making very few mistakes when throwing to 1st base.
1. This question will come to the fore when, inevitably, Posey gets injured again.
2. From time-to-time he could take a break from backstop duty, give the backup catcher some playing time, help pad the lineup against a troublesome southpaw.
3. Depending on how the corner infield positions sort out, really depending on Sandoval halting his practice of following Giants Coach Shawon Dunston’s Major League Star Player Master Guidelines for Low OBP Perfection, which require swinging early and often in every plate appearance, Posey could practice taking groundballs at third base. He was a shortstop once. But if Sandoval plateaus as a perennial All-Star candidate, why bother with Posey at third.
I agree with all the comments above. Buster is invaluable as a catcher and stands out as a steady leader with class and baseball smarts.
Giants need to dump whiteside as fast as they can..he is totally worthless!
Really, worthless? He was and always will be a backup catcher. Who the hell else did you want to see in the squat after Buster went down?
Gotta do what cha gotta do.
I agree. Whitey is a nice back-up guy (just wish his swing wasn’t so flat-footed). He compliments Posey, BUT, I see stepping in to take Whitey’s job. Stewart’s arm is the difference.
Remove Posey from behind the plate. He is too valuable to the offense and catching will shorten his career. You cite a freak accident but you fail to mention that Posey had taken a few off the noggin’ before the injury that started a debate about a long term position for him. Another consequence of catching is wear and tear on the knees. Posey’s value is more than positional. His primary value is his uncanny ability to hit in the clutch. This is an attribute sorely missing from the presently constituted Giant lineup or the contorted permutations thereof.
My thinking exactly. His value is behind the plate until he gets too old to catch. At twenty four this need not even be disgussed
There is another side to this: Catchers break down quickly and don’t come back. Look at phenom Joe Mauer. It is the most punishing position (some arguments could be made about pitcher, but they play far fewer innings). Catching full time could wreck Posey over time as much as the Cousins assault wrecked him short term. He is likely not to have as long or as productive a career if he catches full time. In fact, the Cousins incident demonstrates that: Somewhat less catastrophic but still violent incidents occur at the plate all the time. They chip away. Plus squatting and reacting on every pitch: Who else on the field has to do that in 150+ games? And so on. The reasons catchers break down fast are obvious, and the facts demonstrating the break down are clear. Exceptions stand out (Berra, Bench) but the norm is short and brutal.
Yet Posey’s greatest value clearly is as a catcher.
If I were GM I would get a good defensive catcher with positional average offensive output. If I could (I am not trying to analyze the hot stove league). I would have Posey catch 80-100 games and play the others at 1b (or 3b, I guess, if that makes sense). I’d back him up with Hector in 80 games if Hector was the best alternative.
Posey needs to be a catcher, but not always. He needs to be in the lineup as always as possible.
I believe if MR. BRIAN SABEAN WAS INTERESTED IN WINNING FOR THE SAN FRANCISCO GIANTS , HE WOULD TRADED ROLAND, AND TEJA TO WASHINGTON NATIONALS FOR THE BEST DEFENSIVE CATCHER AND KNOWS HOW TO HANDLE THE ELITE GIANTS PITCHING STAFF AND HIS NAME IS IVAN RODRIETSX WHO IS NOT HELPING THE NATONALS ON ANY LEVEL. HE CAN HIT FOR POWER AND 40 IS NOT TO OLD EXTIGER, RANGER, AND YANKEE HE NEEDS TO GET INTO A NEW SURROUNDINGS
Jesus…MAN learn some syntax and spelling
I don’t disagree with anything you said, Julian…
However, I think you are missing a major point: Buster’s ankle may not ALLOW him to play catcher again, or longterm at least. The type of injury that he sustained caused MAJOR damage to his ankle, lower leg and ligaments and tendons. That type of injury does not always heal.
Posey’s ankle may be weaker and more susceptible to re-injury for the rest of his life, whether or not he plays catcher! And I’m not talking about another fluke injury, here. He may be susceptible to twisting the ankle again, re-tearing the tendons, etc.
Obviously, I’m not a doctor and I haven’t looked at his MRIs and x-rays. However, my wife is a physical therapist and several other family members work in the medical industry, so I do know a LITTLE bit about what I’m talking about here.
I hope I’m wrong.
You are not wrong, Scott. Because of the nature of the injuries, constant weight shift on healed but prior damaged tendons etc, a catcher can find his footing giving out suddenly. So I wonder, can Posey play RF? If belt is in LF, Nate can learn CF (with his arm it would be HUGE). I am assuming the Giants have no chance to re-sign Beltran (who is slow as hell out there). Just an exploratory thought.
We all hope and pray that Buster’s injuries will be repaired — as well as modern medicine can — that he will thoroughly heal and rehab, and that he will return — even better and stronger than before! If catching is his choice, then that is what he should do — as long as that position works out for him and for the team. Guys, what’s right is right. Buster deserves to have his comeback in the position of his choice, and right now that appears to be behind the plate!
Buster Posey is a good catcher and he will be a liability as a 1st baseman because he doesn’t have enough power to be valued at that position. Fielder and Pujols have the numbers as 1st basemen that Posey would have to meet and Posey would pale in comparison! His value is as a catcher.. period!!!!
I believe the point is moot. With this type of ankle/leg injury requiring pins to heal, the physical act of squatting or stretching and pushing off of the 1st base bag will not be accomplished for some time to come.
This is fine and all, but a move to 1B or 3B prolongs his career. It’s the wear and tear of the C position that causes them to break down sooner than players at other positions. Squatting for hours, fouls off every part of your body, collisions – I wouldn’t mind seeing Buster move to one of the corners. Look how Mauer is already fading physically, don’t want to see Buster go that route.
Would your premise and findings be different if Buster played SS for us, a position with which he is already familiar? Positional value…I think so!!!
Buster Posey does not have the range to play shortstop. College baseball ≠ MLB
I think we all agree that catching is a very difficult position to play and it takes special skills to do it well. It also shortens careers. But if Posey wants to play that position and his physical condition will allow it, why not let him play it? Why not let him excel in his career choice, rather have a longer mediocre career? I don’t see him playing 1st base, but please don’t mention Prince Fielders name as a possible Giants player. He just doesn’t strike me as a personality that would mesh in the Giant’s organization. We have several young players who do very well at 1st base. Belt is good, so is Pill. I can’t see Pablo being effective at 1st. He is too short and still is a bit rotund. 3rd suits him just fine. He’s made some fantastic plays there.
Why don’t they find a reasonably good catcher and as someone else suggested let him be a back up to Posey. I do agree that Whiteside is certainly not a competent back up, while I do think Stewart is coming around nicely and he does have a good arm. I realize we really do not have the final say but it would be nice, no great, to have Posey back.
[...] it was a little longer than a week ago, I offered up my thoughts on the idea of Buster Posey changing positions: to summarize, I want him to stay at [...]